I'm self-made!

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Lyric...           12-Aug-09  

Hi, I'm a conservative Idahoan

This morning I was awoken by the alarm clock powered by electricity from Idaho Power, a government regulated monopoly controlled by the State Public Utilities Commission. Aforementioned electricity is always available except for rare instances and then it's usually only out for a few seconds. And it's very affordable. Even the lowliest of crank snorting trailer dwellers in Garden City seem to have electricity.

The electricity itself is generated by dams engineered and contracted for construction by the government.

After waking, I take a shower and brush my teeth with water provided by United Water, another government regulated entity, controlled by the Idaho PUC. And it's clean, almost pure and cheap. Even the bums under the freeway at Rhodes Skateboard Park seem to have plenty of water.

After cleaning up, I eat breakfast. The food I eat is fresh and safe to eat thanks to the USDA and other government agencies.

I get in my car and drive to work now, first on roads provided by my local government agency, Ada County Highway District. I never hit a pothole, not a one. Then I merge on to another road, colloquially called the Connector, it was built by State and Federal government agencies. They are cheap too, I'm charged no toll at all to drive on these roads. A small percentage of my gasoline bill and property tax bill gives me all these roads to drive on. When I get to work I log on to the internet which was developed by the federal governments Department of Defense.

At the end of the 8 hour work day, another feature made possible by government meddling, I get in my very safe car, safe thanks to more government meddling, and I need gas. The gas business is semi-free-market but the quality and quantity of the gas I buy is consistent thanks to more government meddling.

When I get home, I turn on the TV and I trust the channel I tune to will be there without interference from some jackass troll spouting his anti-republican rhetoric. Thanks to the FCC that channel is just as I expected.

It's wonderful to sit in my comfy house smug in the knowledge that I'm a completely self-made man. I didn't need any help all day long from the damn government.

I'm sure that if there was no government, there would just be no way you could have electricity, or water, or tv channels. It's ONLY BECAUSE of the government that these things exist. Right?

no, someone would have made it possible, but only the rich would be able to afford those things.

^moron. Did you ever think without the government siphoning money off the top, that everybody might be a lot richer and could afford a lot more?

^^double moron, did you ever stop to think that the capitalist pigs are siphoning money off the top, from your excess productivity? The difference between the corporate fat cats and government, is you get to vote for leadership in your government. Hell, you can even run for a leadership position in your government. The same can't be said of the oligarchs.

oops, above ^^ should have only been one ^, sorry ^^^

^^ Did you ever think that if you stopped bitching about all the people that have more than you and actually tried to earn some money that you might be able to be one of the rich ones instead of a poor schmuck with nothing better to do but bitch about those who have it better than you. If you can't find a job, make a job. A victim mentality will keep you a victim forever.

^^So clairvoyance is another skill you possess, as well as advanced marco-economics. Guess what finger I'm holding up now? Dude, I own my own house, outright, a decent car, I'm in my 40s and I'm basically retired. I'm an American success story by many standards.

Got anything else to add?

Yes actually I do have a degree in marco-economics lol. If you have all these things then what is the point of your bitching?

Who's bitching, I was pointing out how we all benefit from social welfare programs all day every day. The issue is one of semantics. Not all social welfare programs are about giving money to illegal immigrants or deadbeat losers.

" The food I eat is fresh and safe to eat thanks to the USDA and other government agencies."

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I think it's sweel that you think that's true.

What Obamatrons seem to forget is the 2 main functions of ANY government in history is security and infastructure. Otherwise, what would be the point of having a government?

That would explain and justify the need for government regulation of food safety, roads, water, power, a military ect.

That does not justify a need for national health insurance plan for every living individual here.

Conservatives aren't against paying taxes for these things, we just don't want to pay MORE taxes to pay for your diabetes meds or lung cancer treatment, or to put your arm in a cast because you were too fucking stupid to ride your bicycle down Hill road while you were high. Or your herpes med because you think it is your duty to fuck every bar fly in town. That's all. Buy your own health insurance if you need those things to be treated.

Deal. As long as we dont have to pay for treating that gunshot wound on your face.

^^Have you got a firm number on the cost of the things you mentioned. Can we compare that to illnesses or accidents which aren't of a clear result of one's poor choices? What about that Middleton family? They didn't know the kids would have that genetic disease until they were already born, and those headaches he had have not been shown to be a result of his choices.

"Conservatives aren't against paying taxes for these things...."

Conservatism is the arrogance of the currently lucky.

Golf courses use huge amounts of water thus driving up demand thus increasing costs to the rest of us. How is that fair? Still, water remains cheap and clean even though it's a highly regulated government allowed monopoly.

^^^^^You're assuming people don't mind getting lung cancer, breaking their arms or getting herpes. Sure some will end up in that boat, most will not.

I'm praying conservatives will enact their long-held wet dream of leaving the country to set up a utopia run by John Galt. They seem to think the rest of us would be fucked without their benevolent leadership and hard work. I think it would be more like a patient healing after removing a tapeworm.

The only rule: as they go, they won't be allowed to take the money they harvested off of the rest of us.

"Deal. As long as we dont have to pay for treating that gunshot wound on your face."

Fine with me. I have private health insurance for just such an event. I don't expect YOU to have to pay for MY medical bills.

How about the hypothetical, newly-retired couple in their mid-sixties, who just lost every last penny of their savings in the latest ponzi scheme, and although they paid all insurance premiums to the same provider on time for forty years, they were just denied diabetic medicines by some hidden paragraph in the 240 pages of their providers requirements....perhaps they got caught up in the housing bubble and now can't rely on selling the home as a nest-egg...tho hypothetical these situations exist as much as the many worthless single-moms who cling to the system like a social/economic pariah....I feel Universal Health Care can and should be achieved...I also agree that it cannot be shot through Congress and Legislation by the end of the year despite what our Nation's current Talking Headpiece believes. On the same token the conservatives are not helping the situation by shutting down town-hall discussions and other public forums where both sides should/need to be heard....Higher taxes are unavoidable....if your taxes really were your main concern, why not march onto the Capitol steps and complain about your tax dollars that are being funneled into Iraq, Afghanistan, Asia, Africa, Israel...etc.? That is money currently and consistently thrown down a black hole.

"Golf courses use huge amounts of water thus driving up demand thus increasing costs to the rest of us."

Golf courses pay huge water bills that dwarf every bill you've ever had. So that's how they get away with it. And no it doesn't drive up the cost to the rest of us, since the Golf clubs and their members pay through the nose to keep that shit green, so 2x fail for you.

^^So We're supposed to pay for their risks? Their bad choices are suddenly MY responsibility? Fuck them and fuck you. I work very hard for what I have, sorry you and the old hypothetical fucks your heart bleeds for did plan ahead. My learn some personal responsibilty next time instead of burdoning everyone else, Lyric.

Im Ric Flair! The Stylin`, profilin`, limousine riding, jet flying, kiss-stealing, wheelin` n` dealin` son of a gun!

"Higher taxes are unavoidable"

Bull fucking shit. This nation was founded because the English king started forcing the people to pay higher taxes. They are avoidable and I'd rather do it the legal way before we try the ugly route.

I`m every woman`s dream and every man`s nightmare.

All the women want to be with me, all the men want to be like me.

Every politician touts the "no new taxes" agenda because it is what the Nation loves to hear. As soon as the position is secured, the new taxes begin rolling in. If you think you can stop any new taxes then explain to us your theory. And to the ignorant fuck above...the old-couple was a euphemism for the people in this country who DO provide for their family and secure their retirement/future. Being caught in a ponzi scheme, or having a large company fold and liquidating your pension, is not what I would consider a poor choice on the old couple. And yes I do believe we need to take care of the older generations in this country. I also believe we should provide complete treatment,homes,insurance, etc. for every military serviceman tagged in a roadside bomb. But the owners/investors of Blue Shield seem to have a difference of opinion. Until we actually try to figure this system out(rather than cover our ears and say LALALALALALA)then shit will certainly end up fucked.

"Every politician touts the "no new taxes" agenda because it is what the Nation loves to hear"

No shit! It's because it's what most people want.

"If you think you can stop any new taxes then explain to us your theory."

Simple, pass a balanced budget amendment which requires congress to keep spending confined to a set limit. Limit cannot increase without a nation-wide referendum. Give the president the power of line-item veto so he can kill pork spending that has been inserted into otherwise appropriate legislation. Keep government focused on maintaining national security and national infrastructure only.

LALALALALALALA

"Being caught in a ponzi scheme, or having a large company fold and liquidating your pension, is not what I would consider a poor choice on the old couple."

If that is what you are banking your future on, then yes, you ARE gambling with your future and making poor choices. I don't want to have to float you for making bad choices. What's the saying? Don't count your chickens before they're all hatched, don't keep all your eggs in the same basket.

Astounding....pretty sure you are THE very first person to come up with this. You should run for office because this will easily be shot through legislation, what with it solving all of our tax issues. I stand corrected. I just can't believe it hasn't been achieved in the last 90 years or so.

^Listen, cunt. You asked and I told you. Don't ask me to show if you can't handle the tell. Do you have any ideas besides BOHICA? Maybe this country does need a good bloodletting, just to remind the folks in Washington where the true power lies.

"If that is what you are banking your future on, then yes, you ARE gambling with your future and making poor choices. I don't want to have to float you for making bad choices. What's the saying? Don't count your chickens before they're all hatched, don't keep all your eggs in the same basket."

My great-grandparents had to rebuild their lives after the Depression. They never trusted any Bank again. They only dealt in cash and had it stashed around the house like many others from their generation. However the Government, Banks, Investors, Wall Street etc. convinced the following generations to entrust their life savings and such with them...which worked great for many decades until recently. Had you been a baby-boomer you would have probably entrusted your money the same way. This generation has the luxury of seeing the mistakes early-on. But still, if you work for someone for 45 years and wait until the required time to retire, and feel that everything is set-up, but then the company folds with your health-insurance, pension and such....it's just shitty luck, not a poor choice. I'm paying for Bush's insurance, security, travel costs, and who knows what else, along with all of congress, the current president and all of their families. So ya I'd like to be covered also. I am currently, but I would say it hardly compares to what the fag with the Widestance gets....

^Sounds like your great-Grand parents were smart and you not so much. Fuck boomers. I don't give a fuck if they die paupers for what they've done to this country. They were raised spoiled pompus shit kids, thinking they were destined for the world to be handed to them on a silver platter, they sold out their children and grandchildren. They only ever cared about themselves and their immediate gratification. Let them die pennyless and without a home for their irresponsibility. I don't want to give them one wooden nickle. They had their chance and they turned it down.

You could have just said LALALALALALALALALALA. Hey stupid fuck..I guess you completely skipped that part of the Depression where everyone lost everything to the Banks. People rebuilt themselves afterwords and learned a valuable lesson, much like our generation is now. But the people that were in there 60's and 70's during the depression starved and begged, and you know what?, people helped them out in those days. Take some humble pie and wash it down with a little ass to mouth, dumbfuck.

"This nation was founded because the English king started forcing the people to pay higher taxes." Had This nation been as close to England as Ireland, we would still be drinking the King's Tea. This Nation was born out of simple Logistics, help from the French, Britain's dwindling finances, and the ideal's of a handful of men, which obviously can't stand the test of time.

They were raised spoiled pompus shit kids, thinking they were destined for the world to be handed to them on a silver platter, they sold out their children and grandchildren.

The boomers built up the industry of this nation. How did they supposedly sell out their children? Most trades, and blue-collar jobs in this country were created by the Baby-Boomers....certainly not their hippy, peace love and sell-out children. For fucksake the so-called Generation X is much more deserving of your generalizations.

Yep, it's called a society.

"The boomers built up the industry of this nation. How did they supposedly sell out their children? Most trades, and blue-collar jobs in this country were created by the Baby-Boomers"

Patently false. The one and only industry the boomers could even be suggested as having a hand in would be the computer/digital industry. Most industries in this country were pinoneered by their parents and grandparents.

Ah-ha so lyric is the cunt who likes to gurgle ass in her mouth. Listen babe, I think you have your generations mixed up. The hippie generation IS the fucking baby boomer generation. They are the same fucking thing. And they are the same generation that did a piss poor job of raising the generation Xers. I'm not sure which shitty generation demo your wrinkly, and well used vagina belongs to, but in my book they both suck wet farts out of my ass. You know how to do that right? Suck a fart out my ass?

"You could have just said LALALALALALALALALALA. Hey stupid fuck."

What a wonderful way to avoid a point and not have to acknowledge any validity of what your ideological opposition is trying to say. That's probably why George Bush jr. was president for eight years. Just ignore the stuff you don't understand or don't want to hear and then insult the person saying it, I like it! C'mon dems lets use this one! It totally wins the debate hands down and makes the other person look really stupid!

"Patently false. The one and only industry the boomers could even be suggested as having a hand in would be the computer/digital industry. Most industries in this country were pinoneered by their parents and grandparents."

I'd assume that since you used the word, you can tell the difference between pioneer and built up. And you spelled that word way wrong you ignorant fucksack, way to come off as someone with anything intelligent or valid.

"What a wonderful way to avoid a point and not have to acknowledge any validity of what your ideological opposition is trying to say. That's probably why George Bush jr. was president for eight years. Just ignore the stuff you don't understand or don't want to hear and then insult the person saying it, I like it! C'mon dems lets use this one! It totally wins the debate hands down and makes the other person look really stupid!"

And you obviously skimmed through this thread, so fuck off unless you know what has been said or not beforehand.

"Listen babe, I think you have your generations mixed up. The hippie generation IS the fucking baby boomer generation."

I'll give you a moment to research the term Baby Boomer before I skewer your pathetic attempt at defining it yourself. I think you may have a couple pages stuck together in your GED handbook.....

Pretty sure lyric is a guy and a huge ignorant dick at that.

OP = good post. We're all lucky to live here. If you don't want to pay your taxes then don't and take your chances.

Death and taxes...

They saw the mistakes early on? Yeah that's why those same baby boomers aka your grandparents are still falling for Ponzi schemes, right? No. That generation was FLAGRANT with money. So is this generation. We shouldn't be extending ourselves for more than we can pay, ever. That's just bad business. Why can't it be everyone takes care of their own business? What the hell is so wrong with that? Some people may die but their going to die anyways why should I throw money in the black hole that is another person's life (that will end anyways)? For quality, or should I say equality, of life? WTF does it matter!? Why does it have to be equal? This country was founded on free enterprise and that's the way it should stay. Those that have the wherewithal and drive to make it to the top and perhaps provide/give to their offspring/future generations aka their family who they should be reponsible to in the first place? Get your own son!

Where did I say that the Baby Boomers generation saw the mistakes early on?....I never said that they weren't flagrant with money either. What I did say was that they entrusted their money to Banks, Investors, Wall Street, and such, and so did the following generations until recently. You guys are skimming the thread and not actually reading what is being typed. If your so against helping your fellow citizens, and you feel that everyone should take care of their own, then I assume that you'd be just as happy to put your burning home out with your own garden hose. I mean why should I pay for the Fire Department if I don't ever need their service? Why? Because it is a key part of a successful community and society. I have a job, family, and insurance. I do pay my own way, but it doesn't mean I am opposed to hearing about a Universal Health Care Plan. Unlike the many I meet lately who seem to think that the Nation is doomed to even try and discuss an alternative to Insurance reform. The fucking junkies, single-mom's, and immigrants are already covered by Medicaid. It's not like there's gonna be an influx of more poor, if anything it will be helping the many people who do work, but still can't afford the premiums, or keep getting shafted by such things as "pre-existing conditions"....

With universal health care private companies will have to compete with gov'mnt. insurance which has no profit motive to deny claims.

As it is, most people think they're "covered" with private insurance and to an extent they are. Hypothetically, If someone was to bludgeon TT with his own keyboard and put him into traction for 6mos. he would be covered. If, however, he needed triple bypass surgery or a liver transplant, the insurer could simply say the problem existed before the claimant was insured and deny the claim.

At that point he would need to quickly raise 25-50k to save his life.

In short, universal health care would benefit everyone and only the insurance companies stand to lose anything.

Boo hoo, they'll only make millions instead of billions.

"I'll give you a moment to research the term Baby Boomer before I skewer your pathetic attempt at defining it yourself."

Baby boomer is a term used to describe a person who was born during the demographic Post-World War II baby boom. The term "baby boomer" is sometimes used in a cultural context, and sometimes used to describe someone who was born during the post-WWII baby boom. In general, baby boomers are associated with a rejection or redefinition of traditional values. In Europe and North America boomers are widely associated with privilege, as many grew up in a time of affluence. As a group, they were the healthiest, and wealthiest generation to that time, and amongst the first to grow up genuinely expecting the world to improve with time. One of the unique features of Boomers was that they tended to think of themselves as a special generation, very different from those that had come before. In the 1960s, as the relatively large numbers of young people became teenagers and young adults, they, and those around them, created a very specific rhetoric around their cohort, and the change they were bringing about.

I'll give you a second to let that sink in.......... See, they were the hippie generation and not part of the blue collar industry building generation their parents and grand parents belonged to. They are the ones that want to be pampered and cared for in their old age, they are the ones who sold out my generation. Fuck them and fuck you for defending them. They should get nothing for their failures, least of all from young tax payers.

"With universal health care private companies will have to compete with gov'mnt. insurance which has no profit motive to deny claims."

You've obviously never dealt with the VA, medicare or medicaid. Quite possible the most inept healthcare models in this country. Yes Medicare and Medicaid do deny legit claims, they frequently don't pay for necesary procedures especially if they are experimental, so say goodbye to new medical breakthroughs.

"Hypothetically, If someone was to bludgeon TT with his own keyboard and put him into traction for 6mos. he would be covered. If, however, he needed triple bypass surgery or a liver transplant, the insurer could simply say the problem existed before the claimant was insured and deny the claim."

Patenly false. A)I would never need a liver transplant and B)It would be up to the insurance co. to prove it was pre-existing (and not genetic) before denying my claim and I could still sue them in civil court. Try doing that with the government, who will pull similar bullshit, only instead of denying your claim outright, they will offer to pay for "end of life" counseling (which they already do for medicare/medicaid). Nice solution shit-for-brains.

I agree that the use of google can definitely expand your knowledge...but you gotta read the entire definition...

"The term Generation Jones has gained popularity to distinguish those born 1954-1965 from the earlier Baby Boomers.[4][5][6][7][8"...you missed that at the end..

The earlier baby boomers being the ones born from the depression era...so effectively the workforce of the 30-50's era...which would be my grandparents, my parents would be the hippie generation of the 50's- 70's.... You paraphrased it yourself...Baby boomer is a term used to describe a person who was born during the demographic Post-World War II baby boom.

Anyways one comment I made about baby boomers has derailed the subject... "Patenly false. A)I would never need a liver transplant"... Where can the rest of society gain your ability of clairvoyance?...Then we could all pick and choose our insurance knowing what ailments we will or will not have in the future?

Why don't you uninsured mook fuck retards just BUY your own health insurance? It's not that hard. Sure it means you may have to go to Canada for a vacation instead of Europe, but so fucking what? Stop expecting the rest of us to pay for your shit. Take care of yourself don't ask me and everyone else to help float you along just because you don't want another bill. Guess what, life is fucking full of bills whether you live in a capitalist or socialist society. In a capitalist society you get to keep a little bit more of your money, but you still have to pay to live on this planet. If you don't like that, I'll rent to you a Smith and Wesson and one bullet, but you'll still have to pay me.

It's like these cash for clunker tards thinking that the rebate they got from the government was free, guess what tard....It wasn't! I paid for that shit along with you, your mom (assuming she pays her ho tax) the guy across the street and that schmuck that served you your fries. So in essence we just paid for another bailout. Heres an idea, since we're just printing money and giving it back to people, let's just print off a billion dollars per person in this country and then everyone can be aa billionaire and no one will be poor anymore! That's the kind of economic strategy it seems our current prez is favoring.

Hey shit for brains...I already stated that I am insured...and it's fucking bunk, and if you seriously do have insurance you already know what it costs to insure yourself. I have a family of five...through Blue-shield that is around 520 dollars a MONTH...that's not even considering the 1200 dollar a year deductible. I have a small business so I don't get the break that a Wal-Mart , UPS, Micron, or any other large company gets. And in the last 3 years the most I have ever used my insurance is at the local Primary health. So ya, fuck you if you think I'm wrong for being interested in something that is going to save me that money...Even if the money does go into taxes, I'd be a lot more comfortable knowing that I wouldn't be denied when an emergency did happen.

"Guess what, life is fucking full of bills whether you live in a capitalist or socialist society. "....

Substitute the word bills with taxes, and then shut the fuck up....

I find it hilarious that the people who actually fit in the guidelines for the "Cash for Clunkers" program are actually TT and his ilk...You know the ignorant fucks who insisted on buying that Expedition...nice to see they are all finally conforming to sanity and buying, or being duped as it were, into driving a nice economic, foreign, gas saver...

The insurance companies do not have to prove anything, they just deny the claim. That is what they are paid to do. Hypothetically by the time you could mount a civil suit (If you could manage that in the hospital) you'd be dead before you'd win you claim, we're talking years here. That's assuming your private attorney could or would take on a team of corporate lawyers.

I guess you have some kind of crystal ball though, and know you won't have cancer or need bypass surgery or an organ transplant, so I guess you're good.

I've had private insurance several times BTW, They never paid for a damn thing.

Time to bump this thread in light of the backlash regarding Obama's Roanoke speech.

You go self-made business men. Generate your own fucking electricity, build your own roads, drink your own water, grow your own food to make sure on farmers getting subsidies are involved.

^ No you're clearly right. Businesses (even small ones) should be taxed at a much higher rate. Preferably 98%. How dare they take advantage of American infrastructure! Don't they know that shit is for welfare dependents and the down trodden only!

Soak the little guy! Corporate person-hood needs more money! Think of the of poor cute little fuzzy International Banking Interests! Vote Mitt! Dog surfin' USA!

^WTF, nobody said anything about taxing small business 98% false analogy tard.

The issue is stupid fox news parrots thinking they have made their businesses all by themselves as if they exist in a vacuum. Typical, most conservatives I know are unbelievably selfish.

No one goes it alone. This is the very nature of society or civilization or whatever you call it. Even Dugout Dick, the hermit who lived in a cave up on the Salmon River, traded with outsiders occasionally.

"No one goes it alone. "

Like wise, not everyone has the balls to be an entrepreneur, and the very notion that those of us who do and created something and worked very hard and sacrificed so much to see our businesses grown didn't do this by ourselves is down right insulting.

Thanks for building that road I used to get to work today (which oh by the way I paid you to do anyway) don't think for a second it entitles you to anything more than the compensation you were given.

What Obamatrons seem to forget is the 2 main functions of ANY government in history is security and infastructure. Otherwise, what would be the point of having a government?

That would explain and justify the need for government regulation of food safety, roads, water, power, a military ect.

That does not justify a need for national health insurance plan for every living individual here.

Conservatives aren't against paying taxes for these things, we just don't want to pay MORE taxes to pay for your diabetes meds or lung cancer treatment, or to put your arm in a cast because you were too fucking stupid to ride your bicycle down Hill road while you were high. Or your herpes med because you think it is your duty to fuck every bar fly in town. That's all. Buy your own health insurance if you need those things to be treated.

" nobody said anything about taxing small business 98%"

Don't act like that wouldn't make you pre-maturely ejaculate if Obama makes it a reality. The end game for you people is socialist democracy, and you can't have independently wealthy individuals in that type of society. You can't have individual success stories.

In fact individuality is anathema to your political ideology. You operate on the hive mentality, good for one is good for all. Everyone is equal and special and no one is better than anyone else, right? From the crack addicted prostitute to the micro-physicist. All are created equal. There is no John Galt.

Horsefeathers.

http://youtu.be/nC9P8-B42cA

^^^Well said. At least you now know some basics of the dreaded Democratic Socialism. What you don't understand is these systems are Capitalist and motivated individuals can be successful.

Where as America has a free economy and Marxist countries have a fixed economy, these countries have a mixed economy.

Major utilities like water, rail, and power companies are run by the state. All other product and service industries, manufacturing, etc. are a free and subject to supply and demand, market pricing, and everyone is free to save up, invest, and capitalize.

The one thing you have failed to mention is that I never said America could or would become that way. In fact I said before it probably wouldn't work due to basic American values and principles, culture, and history.

Don't paint me as your foe, bro, it ain't like that and you know it. I can respect political opponents, I'm just a person not a pundit.

"Thanks for building that road I used to get to work today (which oh by the way I paid you to do anyway) "

Well now, I can sure tell you're a business man. With your astute observations on fixed costs vs cost of goods sold, and your astute observations of land, capital and labor you're a regular John Maynard Keynes. You sure seem to understand the difference between fixed assets and capital assets too.

Your claim that your taxes paid for road building is like saying the evaporation from your lawn watering helps it rain thus powers the hydroelectric dams. It's meaningless.

It doesn't change the fact that public utilities that make no sense to duplicate for free market purposes are social constructs and have been successful and are accessible to everyone.

Without roads you sure the hell wouldn't be getting your $20 lawn mowing from Jorge who drives all the way from his cheap rental in Nampa.

Since you want to ignore all the other gov't regulated and overseen public utilites and focus solely on the AHCA, let's do. You are already paying for the indigence of others and bureaucratic billing system that makes the IRS look like accounting for a kid's lemonade stand.

You pay for it by paying higher insurance premiums and higher health care costs and you have no input whatsoever. No voting, no public hearing commentary, and most importantly---no competition. Only a facade of competition from an oligarchy of giant insurance companies.

I mow my own lawn. Why do you hire Jorge to mow yours? Are you that fucking lazy? Oh wait, you're a liberal so yeah, I guess you are.

Look, taxophobic tards. The system is set up so you can avoid a whole lot of taxes if you own a business and employee people who then pay taxes themselves. This is totally fair though difficult too implement.

The taxes we do pay go to all the public utilities like water, sewer, electric and roads. These social constructs make it easy for the poor masses to enter society, start working and paying taxes and in theory reduce the taxes for the rest of us.

It's freaking economies of scale which they teach you in ECON 101.

And to get down too it, the vast majority of the Federal Budget is goes to the Defense Department. If you want to cut taxes the cut out an aircraft carrier or two.

At the local level it's schools police and fire that consume most of our taxes. Good luck with cutting any of those.

^^It's called capitalism. If I have the money, then I can spend it how I want, and if that means hiring out my mowing then that's my business.

There is no John Galt. That much is true.

That's because liberal progressive politics killed him.

Is that some kind of threat? Come bully me fasci scum.

Those damn 47% who don't pay property taxes or gasoline taxes or water bills or electric bills.

^^ Don't tempt me sweet-pea. Bring your camo tutu.

^ We should raise their taxes.

Two-thirds of that 47% paid more in payroll taxes alone than Romney paid in total taxes. Assuming that his one year of disclosure was accurate.

^ Prove it.

Easy. Payroll tax, 15.4 percent. Romney tax, 13.9 percent.

Do you need me to do the arithmetic, too? Do you understand that one number is less than the other? Do decimals confuse you?

^ Proves nothing because you're not including deductions and tax credits for the 47%.

Nobody is paying 15.4%.

Lyric, Why are you feeding the troll? Sincerely, Everyone.

"I'd be a lot more comfortable knowing that I wouldn't be denied when an emergency did happen"

You wouldn't be denied. You'd just have to pay for it.

I pay for it now and I do get denied....A friend of mine works for Blue Cross/Blue Shield and is constantly complaining about the stacks of regulations and rules they have to deal with. The amount and reasons for denial of claims are sometimes outrageous. Case in point, they had to deny a claim recently to a family who's son was badly burned. The kids face is totally fucked up, and the family wanted reconstructive surgeries so the kid could grow up without being treated like the fucking Elephant Man. The claim was denied because it fell under "cosmetic surgery" and wasn't technically a life-threatening case. Meanwhile kid can't even leave the fucking house. So I suppose the family get's to decide now if they wanna sell off all assets to help their son(which in effect could put them into poverty, so they can qualify for Medicaid)...you know what?...now I'm beginning to understand why people don't want to better themselves...good point TT....

^ Elephant Men sympathizer

"The claim was denied because it fell under "cosmetic surgery" and wasn't technically a life-threatening case."

It's called motivation. Maybe this will light a fire under the mothers ass to take a second job, or they could dump cable or make some other sacrifice to help they freak kid not look like a freak. It's how I paid for my own orthodontal work. Point is, though I do feel for their situation, it's upto them to make it better, and no a public option wouldn't cover his 'cosmetic surgery' either, so your sob story = fail.

For those of you who think the government provides a better option to the private market, consider this. The U.S. postal service is bleeding funds so badly that they are being forced to restructure while firms like UPS, and Fedex are not only thriving but have adapted their business model to be viable for the future.

Of course this is just one example of how inept the federal government is at running a business that competes with the private sector.

Actually, you = fail.

The postal service is failing because of the advent of e-mail....people have consistently used Fed-ex and UPS to mail large packages, so I don't think this is much of an equal comparison, tho I do get your drift. Like I said, I am not all for Government control of Health care yet, I mean I haven't even heard what the options or ideas for it are yet, I just keep hearing lately that it is supposed to be finalized by the end of the year. That in itself worries me. But I do know I don't like my current health care situation, and my only option for better coverage is to spend even more money on something I haven't used in three years.

And orthodontic surgery can't even compare to facial reconstruction, no matter how snaggletoothed you were....A second job won't pay for multiple surgeries, nor dumping cable...Jesus Christ you are a fucking idiot...

"And orthodontic surgery can't even compare to facial reconstruction, no matter how snaggletoothed you were....A second job won't pay for multiple surgeries, nor dumping cable...Jesus Christ you are a fucking idiot..."

Ah when all else the always reliable personal attack. Guess what, cunt. There won't be a public option that covers "reconstructive surgery" either. There isn't one for our troops, what makes you think your lazy, under covered friends will get it? I don't know why you libs shy away from work when you always like to tout support for the "working class". If I was in your friends position here is what I'd do. Get a second job (hell get a 3rd if necesary), sell all valuables, cancel all non-necesary services like cable, high speed internet, cell phone and gym memberhip. Consult surgeon and see if a payment plan can be worked out. You'd be surprised how fast you can pay off bills by doing this. When I was younger I paid off a $8k bill in 11 months this way. So be sure to pass that along to your lazy ficticious friend and their family. And tell them to stop looking at me and every other tax payer to pay for their optional surgeries.

Read the post again dumb-ass...I don't know the family...my friend works for the company that denied the claim...it's an example of an insured family being denied for a fuck-load more than 8k...a fucking car cost more than that...if it was 8k it wouldn't be an issue im sure...800k on the other hand is much different..try working out a payment plan for that Kreskin...

quit feeding the fucking troll, you dewsh

^ dewsh

"Read the post again dumb-ass...I don't know the family...my friend works for the company that denied the claim"

Right, in other words they don't exist. I get it, just another hypothetical. $800K on cosmetic surgery? bull-fucking-shit. If that's their hypothetical problem they should seek a hypothetical second opinion. It seems to me the only argument the pro-socialized medicine crowd can muster is a hypothetical one based in emotion with ficticious numbers. That and name calling. Pathetic is what it is.

The actual term is facial reconstructive surgery...it's big insurance companies that reduce it into terms like "cosmetic surgery"...and the statements about the old couple were hypothetical. My friend who works for Blue Shield/Blue Cross is not. Without dropping a name there is no way to prove this, so you can just believe what you want. It seems to me that the leftist conservative argument is based solely on a boogieman agenda created by Hannity/Limbaugh and such without any solid facts, based in emotion with fictitious numbers, and extremely bad grammar. Pathetic is what it is.

Regardless of where any of us stand, it looks like something is gonna be passed, so hopefully it's discussed and worked out. Or we can just keep wasting time boycotting town-hall meetings and such, while the finer points of the agenda are passed through behind our backs.

"My friend who works for Blue Shield/Blue Cross is not."

Though only you seem to know about them. To me it's hypothetical, since they only exist here on your word, which is shit to me.

"It seems to me that the leftist conservative argument"

Leftist conservative?

Hear reason, or she'll make you feel her. - Benjamin Franklin

Whoops I meant rightist liberal....For my words meaning shit to you, you have obviously been shoveling em down your gullet, to respond so often to them. I take your statements of never needing help, always making the right decision, and being successful/educated as a hypothetical situation also...who knows? perhaps you are the one wealthy, educated, politically motivated businessman in Boise that frequents the NMB. Chances are much better tho, that you are listening to Savage right now, as you work your swing shift job at Direct TV feeling comfortable with your mass employee health-coverage, and at the same time enraged/slighted that you have no control over what is happening in our Government. I know I do...

"firms like UPS, and Fedex are not only thriving"

No they're not. FedEx in particular has written off three billion just trying to incorporate Kinko's, which they gave up on and are now spending 871 Million to "rebrand" a brand they paid two billion for. It's not going to work, either. The whole debacle's a boondoggle.

On the other hand, I can mail a letter for 44 cents for basically the same service that UPS or FedEx provides for 12 bucks.

^ Great example. I'll take the 44 cent government healthcare and leave the 12 dollar private healthcare to the wealthy conservatives. As long as Im covered.

^ werd

^ dewsh

^bigot

^^^You'll wait in line while I'm getting treated. FYI most conservatives are not wealthy, but most are practical and responsible. I just hope I'm given an option to opt out of paying for your health insurance since I'm personally and fiscally responsible and carry my own.

"Chances are much better tho, that you are listening to Savage right now, as you work your swing shift job at Direct TV feeling comfortable with your mass employee health-coverage"

I am listening to Savage. And I am working, though not for Direct TV. I have too much self respect for that. And I don't have the benefit of employer healthcare. I have to buy that shit myself, but I do because I'm one of those folks who believes in personal responsibility and not expecting everyone else to take care of me. I know it's weird but I honestly would rather not force the government to take more of your money so that you can help pay for my bills. If that makes me conservative, then why would anybody be against that? unless of course they are lazy, irresponsible, and expect everyone else to take care of them.

"I just hope I'm given an option to opt out of paying for your health insurance"

Under every plan proposed, you would. The Public Option being discussed is premium-based, just like private plans.

I just hope dewshbags like you don't drown out all reason so that I DON'T have an option to opt out of paying for Olympic Tickets, corporate jets, multi-million-dollar salaries and advertising budgets instead of my premiums going to claims.

You'll still pay for medicare, though. These town-hallers will damn well make sure of that. You think they squeal about socialized medicine? Just wait how they'll sound if someone takes theirs away.

FYI, most Americans are practical and responsible, whether they're conservatives, liberals, or neither.

"I have to buy that shit myself, but I do because I'm one of those folks who believes in personal responsibility and not expecting everyone else to take care of me. I know it's weird but I honestly would rather not force the government to take more of your money so that you can help pay for my bills."

Like I said before, I do pay for my current coverage on my family, whether I keep giving it to Blue Cross or the government matters little to me...I just care about the amount, and the peace of mind that my family is not denied for something unforeseen in the future. If the Dems can assure me of it, then I will be on board. In no way am I asking for a handout from you or anyone else. I currently pay into Social Security, and I don't complain about it, so I suppose paying for this won't bother me too much either.

"I currently pay into Social Security, and I don't complain about it"

You will when you are old enough to collect benefits and there is suddenly no fucking money for it. According to the GOA it has until about 2030, maybe less. Yet another thing you can thank a Boomer for.

Ya everyone knows that...it's no surprise to me, the money is going to people that I feel deserve it, and I also know that I don't really have a choice in it, so I don't really worry to much about it. And I wouldn't blame the boomers on it as they aren't the ones deciding to tap into it, I'd point that finger at Congress....

Let me tell you about baby-boomers. They didn't get shit. All the goodies? Passed by the baby-boomers for next generations. I'll tell you what we didn't figure:

I worked the spinach pack line at Bird's Eye. Everybody I knew tassled corn in Iowa. BSU suspended classes for 10 days when it was cherry-picking time in Emmett. My elementary school in Maine closed when it was time to pick spuds. My friends moved sprinkler pipe in Carey.

You youngun's don't do shit. You gripe about immigrant labor, but you won't do it. We did. You want to know what's wrong with America? You're a bunch of lazy, entitled shitheads, because your baby-boomer parents love you so much that they don't want to see you do the same things we had to do.

You think you're put on because there's a war? In '68, it was my ass on the line. The government could just reach out, grab you, and send you to the jungle. You think you're a patriot because you "support the troops?" Most of you aren't one. You won't be. Because there's no draft. You wanna enlist? I give you full credit. But you'll get five times (inflation adjusted) what we did in '70.

The "Boomer" generation worked its ass off - or, didn't. Decided that it was a better idea to drop acid and follow the Dead than it was to work. But if we made that choice, we lived with it. No money. Scrounge vegetables. Live with that choice.

You fuckheads think you've got it hard because you can't afford the next X-Box game because your parents won't pay for it to live in their basement.

Y'know what? Fuck you. You want to blame somebody for illegal or undocumented immigrants? Blame yourself. Because you won't take the jobs I took, your parents took, your grandparents took. You want to live a life of poverty? Cool. Own up to it. Glorify it. Don't complain about it.

I worked for a simple reason. I had to. Meat packers. Chicken pluckers. Onion sorters. Maids. Janitors. There's a nobility to that, one that Baby Boomers made their own.

Suck it up, motherfuckers. There's nothing wrong with being a dreg of society. You've just got to learn to be proud of it.

I de-tassled corn in Nampa until I was old enough to get a job busing tables for a lot more money. The argument that kids nowadays won't work the fields is bunk. They just have more options open to them to not work in them. Or at least they did until recently.

Good for you. Seriously. But I'm guessing you're pretty lonely. Meat Pack? Cherry pick? Apple harvest? Spinach pack? (Okay, unfair, the plant's closed) but I think you get the point? Jobs Americans won't take? WTF?

Yeah, jobs Americans won't take. Because for decades, Americans took them. That's what just sticks in my craw. I had jobs that "Americans won't take" and it just hits me on so many levels. Was I an idiot? Did I "take" something I shouldn't have?" But you know what? I needed it. I needed money. Rent, food, dope (not necessarily in that order) and I did it. Didn't seem unusual at the time.

But now, suddenly, it does. We "have to" import workers for jobs "Americans won't do." WTF? Seriously, I'm not judging anybody. That's what I hear. True?

I said decades. Try hundreds of years.

God Damn It. Hard times mean hard work. Why does anyone think this is a generational thing? Shit happens. We've got shit. You think this is the fault of the baby boomers? The ones who went through it before?

We're Americans, God Damn It! We've seen it before, we'll see it again. Hard times, good times, what the hell. We'll get through it, we'll make it better, then we'll make it worse while we spend the extra.

McDermott: Health care system 'inhuman', 'stupid'

By JOEL CONNELLY SEATTLEPI.COM STAFF

An eye opener at a recent Seattle health symposium: An Oregon doctor reported that his large hospital's neo-natal unit can find itself performing $1 million worth of unpaid care on a given day.

Costs of intensive care for these newborn babies, many the offspring of uninsured teenage mothers -- with afflictions that could have been spotted during pregnancy -- gets pushed on to all the rest of us.

"Our health care system is not only inhumane, but stupid," Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Wash., himself a physician, said in relating the doctor's story.

In order to reform that system, McDermott feels, President Barack Obama will need to show steely nerve, and steady a Democratic-run Congress filled with "raw recruits who have never been through a big battle."

"They're not taking any prisoners," McDermott said of health care opponents. "We know the opposition is not playing with anything approaching fairness or civility."

McDermott speaks as a House veteran of the last great effort to achieve health care reform, in 1993-94. Two powerful lobbies -- insurance companies and the pharmaceutical industry -- worked to kill it. And the Clinton administration couldn't get its act together.

In 15 years, however, America's health care battlefield has changed on four major fronts.

* The country's major business interests want to offload the financial burdens of employee health care. The oft-quoted figure is worth repeating: Health coverage for active and retired autoworkers has added $1,300 to the cost of an automobile manufactured by Detroit's "Big Three." * Physicians have found themselves in such conflict with profit-driven insurers so as to realize that insurance companies are not on their side. The American Medical Association -- which once went to the mat against Medicare -- is now a voice for reform. * Labor unions, which touted health care benefits won for employees, have been forced at the bargaining table to make concessions and increase employee co-pays. * The country's roaring prosperity came to a screeching halt, with Baby Boomers losing jobs and benefits, and Americans with health conditions facing discrimination by rapacious insurers.

Some special interests have scurried to protect what is theirs.

The drug companies -- ably represented by former Louisiana Rep. Billy Tauzin -- went to the White House and cut a deal. They've sacrificed some profits to lock in provisions where the government can't negotiate lower drug prices, say, for Medicare beneficiaries.

But health care reform is closer than at any time since President Harry Truman first talked about universal coverage 60 years ago. A trio of House committees -- including Ways and Means, on which McDermott sits -- have passed out health care plans.

Desperate at the prospect of reform, the right wing has reacted with the ferocity of a cornered wolverine.

"Obama Lies, Grandma Dies," said a placard carried outside President Obama's Portsmouth, N.H., town meeting. Another sign read: "Obamacare: It's to die for." "I think the president is getting a lesson in what this game is about," McDermott said. "Obama is learning the ropes, and he's going to get rope burns. Nobody going into the presidency really knows how to handle things. No matter how smart you are, you haven't the experience of really getting bashed."

The "Deathers" are in evidence this week, appropriately led by two bottom dwellers of American political life.

In a Facebook entry, former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin warned her followers how "Obama's 'death panel' could decide on whether her parents or baby Trig, who has Down Syndrome, live or die.

And ex-House Speaker Newt Gingrich, citing an Obama adviser, spoke of the government acquiring "threatening" power to euthanize Americans, putting "Down Syndrome children at risk."

The attacks stem from a House-proposed provision that would reimburse people for consultations they receive about care at the end of life, such as hospice care.

Sen. Johnny Isakson, a conservative Georgia Republican, has championed the idea.

"I just had a phone call where someone said Sarah Palin's website had talked about the House bill having death panels on it where people would be euthanized," Isakson said Tuesday.

"How someone could take an end of life directive or a living will as that is nuts. You're putting authority in the individual rather than the government."

The manipulated demagoguery, exploited by House Republican leaders and fanned by the Fox News Channel, is not likely to let up. It's an effort to block reform, as well as what Sen. Jim DeMint, R-South Carolina told a conservative group, to destroy the Obama presidency.

Obama was fighting back in Portsmouth. He is coming West for two more health care town halls, Friday in Bozeman, Montana, and Saturday in Grand Junction, Colorado. McDermott is likely to pass pickets Wednesday night when he talks to 34th District Democrats in The Hall at Fauntleroy. He is planning two town halls, one by telephone and the other in person, near the end of the August recess.

Rep. Rick Larsen, D-Wash., hosts an in-person town hall Wednesday from 5 p.m. to 6 p.m. in Memorial Stadium, 3900 Broadway, in Everett.

©1996-2009 Seattle Post-Intelligencer

"The argument that kids nowadays won't work the fields is bunk."

Well, I haven't seen any, I don't know any, and I don't know of any. But hey, that's just me.

You probably live here in Boise...ask around Melba or Homedale...someplace that doesn't have a McDonalds or the equivalent......

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